add a more detailed list of features #237

narimiran · 2020-10-19T12:25:23Z

This is based on this Reddit comment by @c-blake, which was praised both on Reddit and our forum.

First of all: @c-blake, do we have your permission to use this?

Second: I'm not sure how to incorporate this to the existing index.html, so I've put it in features.html. Now there's more text than before, so now we can use a longer code example (and not repeat one from index.html) on the right. Any ideas?

c-blake · 2020-10-19T12:30:56Z

I could see why you might think I was abc619 from his writing style, but that was not me. I have never used Reddit. Maybe there is a way to PM the author.

c-blake · 2020-10-19T12:51:08Z

I did post a HackerNews comment praised (I think.."reflects what I think" is kinda vague..) about Go comparisons/start-ups/marketing in the same forum thread, though, which may be the origin of the confusion.

jekyll/features.html

narimiran · 2020-10-19T14:38:11Z

I could see why you might think I was abc619 from his writing style

It was more because your nick on HN is cb[numbers] and this one is abc[numbers]. Sorry for the confusion, I'll contact the Reddit author directly.

Co-authored-by: Hugo Locurcio <[email protected]>

dom96 · 2020-10-19T19:42:20Z

I suppose we could add a "See more features" button (or similar) on the front page below the current list?

c-blake · 2020-10-19T19:52:21Z

If you move "Top tier meta-programming" (which mentions the VM) above "Iterating" then in the iterating section you could mention the even faster than TinyCC/tcc turnaround time of nim e. I guess implicit in this you may want to mention that TinyCC is supported as a backend. I always tell people about it, but it really does make for 200 ms from-scratch compile times, but nim e is 2x faster at like 100ms (with no imports) on the same machine. I agree with @dom96 that link-chasing/hierarchy of some kind may be helpful to organize things better. 100ms is every keystroke at 120 words per minute, but yeah, usually there are a few imports slowing that down. There are always a few modules that break with both tcc and nim e, of course, since they aren't as well tested. Anyway, turnaround time/edit-test cycles matter tons to some people and not at all to poor suckers stuck in C++/Rust-land. So, judgement call and all that. Just a thought.

ringabout · 2020-11-20T12:20:50Z

Any progress about this?

ringabout · 2021-07-10T12:13:41Z

Hi, @narimiran

I contacted with abc619 who approved it.

My question

Hi, do you see this pull request? Can you approve it?
#237

abc619's answer

Hi! Sorry I didn't see your message earlier. I'm happy to approve using my comment or any derivitive of it :D And by the way, I love your Nim work on Prologue!

dom96

Now that we have a long list on the front page, I think this should be used on the front page.

juancarlospaco · 2021-07-10T14:02:15Z

jekyll/features.html

- <li>Multi-line lambdas</li>
- <li>It combines successful concepts from Ada and Modula.</li>
+ <li>Productivity: human-readable and expressive like Python</li>
+ <li>Type system: strong static typing, nice generics, concepts, and type classes</li>


Suggested change

<li>Type system: strong static typing, nice generics, concepts, and type classes</li>

<li>Type system: strong inferred static typing with generics, concepts, distinct types and type classes</li>

strong inferred static typing or strong static typing with inference
Inference is cool, mention inference.

generics, concepts, distinct types and type classes

IMHO

I would say: "static typing with inference and generics"

juancarlospaco · 2021-07-10T14:06:34Z

jekyll/features.html

+ <li>Productivity: human-readable and expressive like Python</li>
+ <li>Type system: strong static typing, nice generics, concepts, and type classes</li>
+ <li>Performance: matches C and C++, always gives control to the programmer</li>
+ <li>Portability: compiles to C, C++, and Javascript


Mention something like (LLVM also available) ?. 🤔

Suggested change

<li>Portability: compiles to C, C++, and Javascript

<li>Portability: compiles to C, C++, and Javascript/NodeJS (LLVM also available)

If someone can not compile to Node, open bug here

But NodeJS is JavaScript, no? We're talking about languages, not runtimes here

Yes, and we also shouldn't be exhaustive. We should focus on what we support officially. LLVM and NodeJS isn't it.

juancarlospaco · 2021-07-10T14:11:03Z

jekyll/features.html

+ <li>Portability: compiles to C, C++, and Javascript
+ <ul>
+ <li>Native use of all libraries in target languages (no ABI issues) + really nice FFI</li>
+ <li>Single (tiny) executable with no dependencies</li>


Suggested change

<li>Single (tiny) executable with no dependencies</li>

<li>Single tiny executable with no dependencies</li>

The parenthesis do not add a big value there.

juancarlospaco · 2021-07-10T14:20:11Z

jekyll/features.html

+ <li>Native use of all libraries in target languages (no ABI issues) + really nice FFI</li>
+ <li>Single (tiny) executable with no dependencies</li>
+ <li>Write server/client in the same language and share code between front/back end</li>
+ <li>Linux, Windows, and macOS</li>


Suggested change

<li>Linux, Windows, and macOS</li>

<li>Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, BSD, Android, iOS</li>

It may be worth mentioning android and even IOS.

@juancarlospaco it's macOS and iOS (proper naming and casing)

juancarlospaco · 2021-07-10T14:28:03Z

jekyll/features.html

+ <li>Performance: matches C and C++, always gives control to the programmer</li>
+ <li>Portability: compiles to C, C++, and Javascript
+ <ul>
+ <li>Native use of all libraries in target languages (no ABI issues) + really nice FFI</li>


Suggested change

<li>Native use of all libraries in target languages (no ABI issues) + really nice FFI</li>

<li>Native use of all C, C++ and JavaScript libraries (no ABI issues) with a friendly and direct FFI</li>

juancarlospaco · 2021-07-10T14:46:43Z

jekyll/features.html

+ <h2>Good for everything, from shell scripting to web front and backend,
+ to machine learning, high-performance computing (HPC), and embedded.</h2>


Suggested change

<h2>Good for everything, from shell scripting to web front and backend,

to machine learning, high-performance computing (HPC), and embedded.</h2>

<h2>Multipurpose, web backend and frontend, machine learning,

high-performance computing, embedded, IoT, WebAssembly, scripting.</h2>

"Good for everything" sounds like "jack of all trades master of none"

"general purpose" ?

I think the slogan is just like "life is short, use python". It is easy to be remembered, expressive and smooth.

So if you want a long life you should NOT use Python, interestin' 🤔

juancarlospaco · 2021-07-10T14:56:53Z

jekyll/features.html

+ <li>Iterating: Very fast compile speeds</li>
+ <li>Top-tier metaprogramming
+ <ul>
+ <li>Hygienic AST Macros a core part of the language, very flexible syntax</li>


Suggested change

<li>Hygienic AST Macros a core part of the language, very flexible syntax</li>

<li>Hygienic AST Macros with ordinary Nim syntax are a core part of the language</li>

"very flexible syntax" do not add too much value.

When you say "macro metaprogramming" some people think if the mess of C++ template programming language thats different from C++ programming language itself.

I would say "ordinary Nim syntax" which I think short-circuits @juancarlospaco's critique of "two syntaxes".

"ordinary Nim syntax" 👍

juancarlospaco · 2021-07-10T15:16:27Z

jekyll/features.html

+ <li>Top-tier metaprogramming
+ <ul>
+ <li>Hygienic AST Macros a core part of the language, very flexible syntax</li>
+ <li>Runs a VM of Nim at compile time giving you most of the language (bar pointers) to generate code or run procedures and store them as const</li>


Suggested change

<li>Runs a VM of Nim at compile time giving you most of the language (bar pointers) to generate code or run procedures and store them as const</li>

<li>Macros are expanded at compile time on a Nim VM integrated in the compiler with most of the language available (except pointers) to generate optimizations (loop unrolling, etc) or precompute procedures (static internationalization, etc) and store them as constants</li>

"Nim runs on a VM" definitely not good description for new people.

"bar pointer" not good way to say "except pointers".

"code to generate code" --> optimize code.

"run procedures" --> precompute procedures.

Is nice to mention that macros is expanded at compile time,
some langs have metaprogramming but is expanded at run-time-only slowing down your code.

"Loop unrolling" because is hard to do for other langs, eg Rust can not do loop unrollings.

"static internationalization" because is hard to do for other langs, eg C/C++ use run-time internationalization.

I would simplify this to simply: "Compile-time execution of ordinary Nim code via a purpose-built VM"

add a more detailed list of features

db875a9

narimiran added the hacktoberfest-accepted label Oct 19, 2020

Calinou reviewed Oct 19, 2020

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Co-authored-by: Hugo Locurcio <[email protected]>

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add a more detailed list of features #237

add a more detailed list of features #237

narimiran commented Oct 19, 2020

c-blake commented Oct 19, 2020

c-blake commented Oct 19, 2020

narimiran commented Oct 19, 2020

dom96 commented Oct 19, 2020

c-blake commented Oct 19, 2020 •

edited

ringabout commented Nov 20, 2020

ringabout commented Jul 10, 2021 •

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dom96 Jul 10, 2021

juancarlospaco Jul 10, 2021

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dom96 Jul 10, 2021

juancarlospaco Jul 10, 2021

juancarlospaco Jul 10, 2021 •

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ringabout Jul 10, 2021 •

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c-blake Jul 10, 2021

ringabout Jul 10, 2021 •

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juancarlospaco Jul 10, 2021

juancarlospaco Jul 10, 2021 •

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dom96 Jul 10, 2021 •

edited

	<li>Type system: strong static typing, nice generics, concepts, and type classes</li>
	<li>Type system: strong inferred static typing with generics, concepts, distinct types and type classes</li>

	<li>Portability: compiles to C, C++, and Javascript
	<li>Portability: compiles to C, C++, and Javascript/NodeJS (LLVM also available)

	<li>Single (tiny) executable with no dependencies</li>
	<li>Single tiny executable with no dependencies</li>

	<li>Linux, Windows, and macOS</li>
	<li>Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, BSD, Android, iOS</li>

	<li>Native use of all libraries in target languages (no ABI issues) + really nice FFI</li>
	<li>Native use of all C, C++ and JavaScript libraries (no ABI issues) with a friendly and direct FFI</li>

		<h2>Good for everything, from shell scripting to web front and backend,
		to machine learning, high-performance computing (HPC), and embedded.</h2>

	<li>Hygienic AST Macros a core part of the language, very flexible syntax</li>
	<li>Hygienic AST Macros with ordinary Nim syntax are a core part of the language</li>

	<li>Runs a VM of Nim at compile time giving you most of the language (bar pointers) to generate code or run procedures and store them as const</li>
	<li>Macros are expanded at compile time on a Nim VM integrated in the compiler with most of the language available (except pointers) to generate optimizations (loop unrolling, etc) or precompute procedures (static internationalization, etc) and store them as constants</li>

add a more detailed list of features #237

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add a more detailed list of features #237

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narimiran commented Oct 19, 2020

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