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perplexity run post c-api refactor merge to verify result: 6.5990
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32 threads. let me show the full output, it matches my old output exactly (so maybe per machine delta?). One notable difference is AVX512. |
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Huh, I tried with 10 threads, and got exactly your output. So seems like there is something up there. |
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oh gad, more dimension space.
your log states: AVX512 = 0 |
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oh my, i can't read. yes, so AVX512 matches :). |
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Good-ish news. I did a complete 10 thread run of 7B, q4_0 and it resulted in |
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Be sure you know exactly what kind of GPTQ quantization you have because the old .pt files don't have the "groupe size 128" if I remember well |
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I've been running some perplexity tests on my Q4_1 acceleration fork (see also this post), and noticed that the scores for the first few batches were worse. On 7B, it made a difference of as much as 0.1 at some point (usually closer to 0.05). I then swapped around the order of the two I suspect that we are dealing with numerical issues here. Indeed, with some debug output, it becomes clear that for some tensors the accumulator hits in excess of 10^4 magnitude while several blocks of summands are 10^{-3}. At float32 precision, the mantissa has about 7 significant decimal digits, so we're clearly actually hitting the spot where arbitrarily many summands could be functionally ignored. On this hunch, I tried to do a simple stability-improving transformation where I cut the loop computing the dot product in half, summed the first and second halves separately and then finally summed them together. This produced what I think is approximately the best-looking 7B wikitext block scores yet: [1]4.5225,[2]4.9974,[3]5.8552,[4]6.4904,[5]6.6052 (To compare, Q4_1 in master is cited as [1]4.4880,[2]4.9980,[3]5.9143.) I think this is a problem we should take seriously, considering that these discrepancies are only an order of magnitude or so off from the perplexity benefits of Q4_1 vs. Q4_0. I don't know if the current split in two is optimal, or we can do better with, say, splitting in four. In fact, how do "professional" and GPU matrix multiplication solutions handle this? Implementing a dot product as a linear loop accumulation seems bound to run into this problem; naively you probably want something closer to a binary tree for reducing your sum. |
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https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/how-to-improve-float-array-summation-precision-and-stability/67904 has some good details on accurate summation. Kahan summation looks like it might be fairly easy to try. |
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Thanks for the pointer. I tried implementing Kahan summation, but the result was actually worse (though I can't rule out that I screwed up something): [1]4.6048,[2]5.0737,[3]5.9639,[4]6.5621,[5]6.6616, It also had a ~50% performance overhead, i.e. more than negates the cost of just staying with the implementation in master. I do really wonder how whatever LLaMa was trained on implemented this. It seems quite possible that ultimately the training "worked around" whatever numerical quirks there were (e.g. that small weights towards the tail end of an array tend to get rounded away), and not reproducing them exactly results in worse performance even if it's more correct. As a sanity check, here's what comes out when doing Kahan sums wrong (flipping the sign on the error compensation terms): [1]4.6383,[2]5.0922,[3]5.9708, i.e., barely worse. Would anyone with better CPU/memory than me be willing to try running the entire eval for the various solutions on 7B Q4_1, to make sure we are not chasing local fluctuations? My estimated runtime for each of them is on the order of 30 hours. I've pushed in the baseline accelerated branch (q4_1_more_accel), one with Kahan summation (q4_1_more_accel_kahan) and one with a tuneable loop splitting parameter (defaults to 2) (q4_1_more_accel_loopsplit). |
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...on the other hand, a simple regrouping of terms at the cost of one extra vector operation (namely: calculate [1]4.3819,[2]4.9055,[3]5.8298,[4]6.4572 We might really need better data than the first few chunks, but it does make sense for this to help (if m0/m1 are negative, then the two terms may cancel to a significant extent). |
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Guys I find someone who already did the tests https://github.com/IST-DASLab/gptq |
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OK, got the numbers for 65B q4_1 - 3.6188. Full run info (from a M1 Ultra): system_info: n_threads = 8 / 20 | AVX = 0 | AVX2 = 0 | AVX512 = 0 | FMA = 0 | NEON = 1 | ARM_FMA = 1 | F16C = 0 | FP16_VA = 1 | WASM_SIMD = 0 | BLAS = 1 | SSE3 = 0 | VSX = 0 | |
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Perplexity score for 13B f16 - 5.2455 13B f16 raw data[1]3.6920,[2]4.1502,[3]4.9227,[4]5.3138,[5]5.4988,[6]5.4418,[7]5.5892,[8]5.7035,[9]5.9589,[10]6.1779,[11]6.3594,[12]6.4056,[13]6.3646,[14]6.4525,[15]6.6488,[16]6.3378,[17]6.2593,[18]6.2369,[19]5.9537,[20]5.9339,[21]5.8613,[22]5.6905,[23]5.6637,[24]5.5727,[25]5.5836,[26]5.4377,[27]5.2660,[28]5.1678,[29]5.0918,[30]4.9584,[31]4.9168,[32]4.9304,[33]4.8871,[34]4.9276,[35]4.9463,[36]4.9698,[37]4.9619,[38]4.9593,[39]4.9869,[40]5.0272,[41]5.0495,[42]5.0830,[43]5.0490,[44]5.0919,[45]5.0944,[46]5.0694,[47]5.0982,[48]5.0816,[49]5.0833,[50]5.0530,[51]5.0610,[52]5.0542,[53]5.0999,[54]5.0905,[55]5.0723,[56]5.0915,[57]5.1093,[58]5.1312,[59]5.1492,[60]5.1848,[61]5.1786,[62]5.2323,[63]5.2568,[64]5.2683,[65]5.3041,[66]5.3034,[67]5.3211,[68]5.3333,[69]5.3604,[70]5.3899,[71]5.4117,[72]5.4453,[73]5.4921,[74]5.4992,[75]5.5082,[76]5.5223,[77]5.5336,[78]5.5201,[79]5.5462,[80]5.5412,[81]5.5490,[82]5.5459,[83]5.5012,[84]5.4898,[85]5.4834,[86]5.4685,[87]5.4029,[88]5.3581,[89]5.3366,[90]5.3268,[91]5.3474,[92]5.3433,[93]5.3451,[94]5.3450,[95]5.3714,[96]5.3681,[97]5.3649,[98]5.3611,[99]5.3541,[100]5.3514,[101]5.3747,[102]5.3704,[103]5.3863,[104]5.3905,[105]5.3922,[106]5.4062,[107]5.4049,[108]5.4198,[109]5.4190,[110]5.4137,[111]5.4315,[112]5.4479,[113]5.4473,[114]5.4460,[115]5.4502,[116]5.4385,[117]5.4379,[118]5.4618,[119]5.4799,[120]5.5083,[121]5.5233,[122]5.5451,[123]5.5813,[124]5.5987,[125]5.5938,[126]5.6289,[127]5.6610,[128]5.6888,[129]5.6772,[130]5.6855,[131]5.6816,[132]5.6779,[133]5.6658,[134]5.6742,[135]5.6741,[136]5.6658,[137]5.6622,[138]5.6486,[139]5.6409,[140]5.6399,[141]5.6127,[142]5.6087,[143]5.5837,[144]5.5680,[145]5.5591,[146]5.5482,[147]5.5533,[148]5.5563,[149]5.5531,[150]5.5525,[151]5.5572,[152]5.5516,[153]5.5421,[154]5.5365,[155]5.5429,[156]5.5409,[157]5.5565,[158]5.5581,[159]5.5589,[160]5.5626,[161]5.5734,[162]5.5487,[163]5.5393,[164]5.5191,[165]5.4943,[166]5.4717,[167]5.4404,[168]5.4139,[169]5.4008,[170]5.3919,[171]5.3718,[172]5.3599,[173]5.3475,[174]5.3211,[175]5.3012,[176]5.2880,[177]5.2717,[178]5.2520,[179]5.2393,[180]5.2323,[181]5.2162,[182]5.2000,[183]5.1881,[184]5.1872,[185]5.1803,[186]5.1812,[187]5.1867,[188]5.1842,[189]5.2003,[190]5.2006,[191]5.2174,[192]5.2312,[193]5.2457,[194]5.2567,[195]5.2754,[196]5.2871,[197]5.3058,[198]5.3190,[199]5.3209,[200]5.3213,[201]5.3145,[202]5.3270,[203]5.3325,[204]5.3275,[205]5.3359,[206]5.3410,[207]5.3371,[208]5.3427,[209]5.3461,[210]5.3518,[211]5.3621,[212]5.3684,[213]5.3776,[214]5.3803,[215]5.3835,[216]5.3955,[217]5.4120,[218]5.4255,[219]5.4255,[220]5.4229,[221]5.4184,[222]5.4185,[223]5.4122,[224]5.4057,[225]5.4022,[226]5.4219,[227]5.4267,[228]5.4340,[229]5.4410,[230]5.4371,[231]5.4522,[232]5.4419,[233]5.4273,[234]5.4128,[235]5.3905,[236]5.3855,[237]5.3770,[238]5.3801,[239]5.3691,[240]5.3601,[241]5.3633,[242]5.3648,[243]5.3641,[244]5.3543,[245]5.3508,[246]5.3410,[247]5.3314,[248]5.3254,[249]5.3221,[250]5.3257,[251]5.3176,[252]5.3128,[253]5.3038,[254]5.2995,[255]5.2906,[256]5.2744,[257]5.2647,[258]5.2581,[259]5.2572,[260]5.2490,[261]5.2439,[262]5.2399,[263]5.2351,[264]5.2117,[265]5.2117,[266]5.2090,[267]5.2029,[268]5.2092,[269]5.2085,[270]5.2094,[271]5.2155,[272]5.2184,[273]5.2198,[274]5.2206,[275]5.2265,[276]5.2322,[277]5.2442,[278]5.2524,[279]5.2606,[280]5.2644,[281]5.2739,[282]5.2792,[283]5.2916,[284]5.3002,[285]5.3081,[286]5.3204,[287]5.3170,[288]5.3223,[289]5.3163,[290]5.3023,[291]5.2894,[292]5.2763,[293]5.2645,[294]5.2652,[295]5.2654,[296]5.2699,[297]5.2690,[298]5.2710,[299]5.2688,[300]5.2602,[301]5.2605,[302]5.2543,[303]5.2461,[304]5.2389,[305]5.2364,[306]5.2260,[307]5.2290,[308]5.2298,[309]5.2168,[310]5.2141,[311]5.2098,[312]5.2113,[313]5.2059,[314]5.2043,[315]5.1917,[316]5.1873,[317]5.1749,[318]5.1589,[319]5.1692,[320]5.1801,[321]5.1847,[322]5.1817,[323]5.1760,[324]5.1741,[325]5.1833,[326]5.1850,[327]5.1856,[328]5.1890,[329]5.1937,[330]5.1960,[331]5.2063,[332]5.2029,[333]5.2105,[334]5.2061,[335]5.2013,[336]5.2036,[337]5.2027,[338]5.2023,[339]5.1981,[340]5.1954,[341]5.2020,[342]5.2052,[343]5.2093,[344]5.2097,[345]5.2112,[346]5.2097,[347]5.2133,[348]5.2170,[349]5.2191,[350]5.2173,[351]5.2186,[352]5.2187,[353]5.2137,[354]5.2144,[355]5.2192,[356]5.2222,[357]5.2193,[358]5.2272,[359]5.2293,[360]5.2260,[361]5.2258,[362]5.2326,[363]5.2434,[364]5.2485,[365]5.2523,[366]5.2542,[367]5.2628,[368]5.2608,[369]5.2622,[370]5.2642,[371]5.2604,[372]5.2651,[373]5.2692,[374]5.2674,[375]5.2671,[376]5.2728,[377]5.2695,[378]5.2721,[379]5.2759,[380]5.2692,[381]5.2662,[382]5.2625,[383]5.2607,[384]5.2607,[385]5.2595,[386]5.2583,[387]5.2581,[388]5.2551,[389]5.2516,[390]5.2464,[391]5.2409,[392]5.2374,[393]5.2370,[394]5.2402,[395]5.2395,[396]5.2344,[397]5.2409,[398]5.2452,[399]5.2521,[400]5.2514,[401]5.2521,[402]5.2531,[403]5.2555,[404]5.2610,[405]5.2458,[406]5.2415,[407]5.2404,[408]5.2414,[409]5.2524,[410]5.2614,[411]5.2707,[412]5.2846,[413]5.2947,[414]5.3007,[415]5.3066,[416]5.3137,[417]5.3231,[418]5.3254,[419]5.3301,[420]5.3378,[421]5.3475,[422]5.3509,[423]5.3564,[424]5.3652,[425]5.3726,[426]5.3786,[427]5.3826,[428]5.3897,[429]5.3933,[430]5.3994,[431]5.4119,[432]5.4150,[433]5.4143,[434]5.4111,[435]5.4124,[436]5.4153,[437]5.4234,[438]5.4307,[439]5.4280,[440]5.4275,[441]5.4232,[442]5.4221,[443]5.4231,[444]5.4248,[445]5.4241,[446]5.4261,[447]5.4284,[448]5.4315,[449]5.4300,[450]5.4311,[451]5.4283,[452]5.4127,[453]5.4031,[454]5.3975,[455]5.3978,[456]5.4018,[457]5.4029,[458]5.4012,[459]5.4008,[460]5.4080,[461]5.4037,[462]5.4000,[463]5.3977,[464]5.3974,[465]5.3952,[466]5.3877,[467]5.3863,[468]5.3841,[469]5.3851,[470]5.3839,[471]5.3789,[472]5.3792,[473]5.3746,[474]5.3732,[475]5.3664,[476]5.3637,[477]5.3551,[478]5.3522,[479]5.3521,[480]5.3541,[481]5.3541,[482]5.3495,[483]5.3454,[484]5.3461,[485]5.3392,[486]5.3327,[487]5.3315,[488]5.3292,[489]5.3238,[490]5.3206,[491]5.3172,[492]5.3105,[493]5.3076,[494]5.3058,[495]5.3035,[496]5.2997,[497]5.2934,[498]5.2907,[499]5.2871,[500]5.2793,[501]5.2722,[502]5.2710,[503]5.2700,[504]5.2624,[505]5.2621,[506]5.2627,[507]5.2573,[508]5.2538,[509]5.2544,[510]5.2565,[511]5.2607,[512]5.2647,[513]5.2672,[514]5.2725,[515]5.2687,[516]5.2678,[517]5.2679,[518]5.2679,[519]5.2701,[520]5.2714,[521]5.2725,[522]5.2739,[523]5.2745,[524]5.2799,[525]5.2827,[526]5.2831,[527]5.2847,[528]5.2795,[529]5.2803,[530]5.2767,[531]5.2764,[532]5.2811,[533]5.2837,[534]5.2817,[535]5.2838,[536]5.2796,[537]5.2778,[538]5.2828,[539]5.2835,[540]5.2850,[541]5.2846,[542]5.2860,[543]5.2881,[544]5.2894,[545]5.2884,[546]5.2888,[547]5.2856,[548]5.2815,[549]5.2815,[550]5.2795,[551]5.2770,[552]5.2751,[553]5.2722,[554]5.2700,[555]5.2681,[556]5.2673,[557]5.2689,[558]5.2656,[559]5.2659,[560]5.2645,[561]5.2647,[562]5.2623,[563]5.2621,[564]5.2663,[565]5.2674,[566]5.2681,[567]5.2662,[568]5.2672,[569]5.2658,[570]5.2684,[571]5.2696,[572]5.2705,[573]5.2710,[574]5.2680,[575]5.2663,[576]5.2656,[577]5.2640,[578]5.2621,[579]5.2620,[580]5.2569,[581]5.2542,[582]5.2542,[583]5.2551,[584]5.2558,[585]5.2499,[586]5.2447,[587]5.2450,[588]5.2493,[589]5.2541,[590]5.2572,[591]5.2589,[592]5.2579,[593]5.2540,[594]5.2552,[595]5.2536,[596]5.2576,[597]5.2557,[598]5.2525,[599]5.2551,[600]5.2542,[601]5.2531,[602]5.2530,[603]5.2556,[604]5.2562,[605]5.2588,[606]5.2602,[607]5.2587,[608]5.2559,[609]5.2568,[610]5.2608,[611]5.2596,[612]5.2618,[613]5.2591,[614]5.2552,[615]5.2495,[616]5.2520,[617]5.2471,[618]5.2429,[619]5.2386,[620]5.2280,[621]5.2231,[622]5.2213,[623]5.2226,[624]5.2231,[625]5.2239,[626]5.2236,[627]5.2262,[628]5.2271,[629]5.2275,[630]5.2305,[631]5.2348,[632]5.2394,[633]5.2383,[634]5.2413,[635]5.2410,[636]5.2375,[637]5.2337,[638]5.2356,[639]5.2326,[640]5.2332,[641]5.2336,[642]5.2384,[643]5.2401,[644]5.2419,[645]5.2406,[646]5.2440,[647]5.2388,[648]5.2399,[649]5.2402,[650]5.2431,[651]5.2473,[652]5.2478,[653]5.2515,[654]5.2462,[655]5.2455, 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Here's another potentially useful plot, showing how well we can('t) use early perplexity values to estimate the final one, at least across different models.
The yellow and green lines are the running ratios of (perplexity up to chunk n / perplexity on all 655 chunks) for the 65b q4_1 and the 13b f16 series that were posted above. The purple line is the ratio of those two ratios. If early measurements were good predictors of the final one (i.e. we could do something like taking the P_(model1)[3]/P_(model1)[655] ratio for one model, divide the P_(model2)[3] perplexity for another model by it, and thereby estimate the final perplexity P_(model2)[655]), we'd expect this to be a line at 1, or at least something that's easily modelled. Instead, we see it isn't: different-size models are good at different parts of Wikitext. Remains to see if this exercise works any better for different quantizations of the same model. If it did, we could at least evaluate different quantizations and numeric fiddling much faster... Edit: Same thing, but for 13b q4_0 vs. 13b f16:
This suggests that for different quantizations of the same model, this may be more viable. Formally, define the nth P1-estimate of P2's final perplexity as being P2[n]*P1[655]/P1[n]. Then this seems to become a reasonable estimate around n=30, suggesting that we can pick the quantization and calculation strategy that performs the best at the first 30 chunks of Wikitext and be somewhat confident that it is in fact (not too far from) the best. |
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I'm about to go on holiday for 3+ weeks next week, so if we can design and smoke test a test suite that I can run with minimal monitoring we have 8000+ CPU hours of free compute available to churn away against 1000+ chunks per model or whatever people think is useful 🏖️ 📉 |
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I ran both master and the q4_1_more_accel branch + regrouped additions to 30 steps, and it looks like they converge to basically the same. If the estimation I outlined above holds up, maybe it's not worth to even bother with the regrouping, and we should just merge q4_1_more_accel as it is currently upstreamed (i.e., the fastest code under consideration). master[1]4.5565,[2]5.0597,[3]5.9601,[4]6.5526,[5]6.6511,[6]6.6109,[7]6.7965,[8]6.9006,[9]7.2246,[10]7.4742,[11]7.7228,[12]7.7703,[13]7.6961,[14]7.7716,[15]8.0268,[16]7.6081,[17]7.4710,[18]7.4267,[19]7.0473,[20]7.0268,[21]6.9285,[22]6.7557,[23]6.7290,[24]6.6439,[25]6.6503,[26]6.4792,[27]6.2956,[28]6.1830,[29]6.0938,[30]5.9276q4_1_more_accel + regroup[1]4.3819,[2]4.9055,[3]5.8298,[4]6.4572,[5]6.5991,[6]6.5767,[7]6.7875,[8]6.8693,[9]7.2119,[10]7.4796,[11]7.7147,[12]7.7601,[13]7.6988,[14]7.7769,[15]8.0329,[16]7.6225,[17]7.4931,[18]7.4461,[19]7.0621,[20]7.0353,[21]6.9411,[22]6.7664,[23]6.7310,[24]6.6350,[25]6.6413,[26]6.4746,[27]6.2868,[28]6.1829,[29]6.0933,[30]5.9268 |
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My M1 ultra run of 64B q4_0 is done - 3.6902 - 13 hours |
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in the plot you can clearly see that 30 and 65 where trained on more tokens. |
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I just started a run on a 65B gptq model but it looked noticeably worse (something like 3.4 vs 3.0 on the first couple iterations) and seemed like it wouldn't be worth running the full set on. Is the the gptq inference code solidified yet? If so, is there anyway to generate a gptq output w/o an Nvidia GPU (I'm not sure how up to date the quantization was on the model I have and I'd like to make sure it is a current version). |
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@jasontitus you should test on a GPTQ .pt file that has a group size of 128 to get the expected best results: The problem is that we don't know how to convert those files into ggml yet |
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Out of curiosity I'm doing a 3 day run with the 5521 total chunks in
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cool, but which file is that exactly ? because the |
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or did you change context size perhaps? #407 also changes how that work. |
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wow, that graph is very unstable, even past batch 1000 |
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I also just ran a 30B q4_1 run last night. It finished at 4.2701. |
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i am sooo feeling that. ping me if you want me to test 30B, i cant run the 65B though. |
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@glinscott looks like we are switching on --memory_f16 by default 9330ff0#diff-e5f52015db7fc454918552b75cd88ce194845d744c17d78eecde2e7777d27076R82 might skew perplexity a bit. |
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Should I keep F32 for now? |
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it was a pretty tiny delta from the measurements I did, so makes sense to switch on by default IMO |
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yes F16 is good, but we did not extensively test. #270 observed changes where only 0.00x |
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I can run the 65B models again, but it doesn’t sound like anything should
change much since 2 days ago. I thought the changes were just to give a
little more stability to the runs and that the absolute scores shouldn’t
change much.
A single run on 65B takes about 13 or 14 hours so I’m not too eager to redo
them unless needed.
…On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 9:01 AM Erik Scholz ***@***.***> wrote:
I don't have enough disk space for the bigger models
i am sooo feeling that.
ping me if you want me to test 30B, i cant run the 65B though.
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OK, finished a run of 30B f16 (non-quantized - not with the --memory_f16 option) that can compare to the q4_1 - 4.1539. |
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wow, with q4_1 being 4.2701, there is only 0.1162 difference. |
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Updated plot at #406 (comment) |
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@gjmulder What do you think about moving the chart to the OP so it can be more easily referenced? |
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FYI with the latest BLAS fixes, I believe that perplexity computations should be much faster with big batch sizes ( > 255) if you link against OpenBLAS: # on x86
make clean && LLAMA_OPENBLAS=1 make -j Let me know if this is true. # no BLAS, 7B
make clean && LLAMA_NO_ACCELERATE=1 make -j && ./main --perplexity -m ./models/7B/ggml-model-q4_0.bin -f build/wiki.test.raw -t 8
system_info: n_threads = 8 / 10 | AVX = 0 | AVX2 = 0 | AVX512 = 0 | FMA = 0 | NEON = 1 | ARM_FMA = 1 | F16C = 0 | FP16_VA = 1 | WASM_SIMD = 0 | BLAS = 0 | SSE3 = 0 | VSX = 0 |
perplexity : calculating perplexity over 655 chunks
21.11 seconds per pass - ETA 3.84 hours
# no BLAS, 13B
make clean && LLAMA_NO_ACCELERATE=1 make -j && ./main --perplexity -m ./models/13B/ggml-model-q4_0.bin -f build/wiki.test.raw -t 8
system_info: n_threads = 8 / 10 | AVX = 0 | AVX2 = 0 | AVX512 = 0 | FMA = 0 | NEON = 1 | ARM_FMA = 1 | F16C = 0 | FP16_VA = 1 | WASM_SIMD = 0 | BLAS = 0 | SSE3 = 0 | VSX = 0 |
perplexity : calculating perplexity over 655 chunks
41.39 seconds per pass - ETA 7.53 hours
# with BLAS, 7B
make clean && make -j && ./main --perplexity -m ./models/7B/ggml-model-q4_0.bin -f build/wiki.test.raw -t 8
system_info: n_threads = 8 / 10 | AVX = 0 | AVX2 = 0 | AVX512 = 0 | FMA = 0 | NEON = 1 | ARM_FMA = 1 | F16C = 0 | FP16_VA = 1 | WASM_SIMD = 0 | BLAS = 1 | SSE3 = 0 | VSX = 0 |
perplexity : calculating perplexity over 655 chunks
10.43 seconds per pass - ETA 1.90 hours
# with BLAS, 13B
make clean && make -j && ./main --perplexity -m ./models/13B/ggml-model-q4_0.bin -f build/wiki.test.raw -t 8
system_info: n_threads = 8 / 10 | AVX = 0 | AVX2 = 0 | AVX512 = 0 | FMA = 0 | NEON = 1 | ARM_FMA = 1 | F16C = 0 | FP16_VA = 1 | WASM_SIMD = 0 | BLAS = 1 | SSE3 = 0 | VSX = 0 |
perplexity : calculating perplexity over 655 chunks
19.34 seconds per pass - ETA 3.52 hoursSo about x2 speed-up when using BLAS. |
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Does that mean it will also get faster on Apple Silicon now?
…On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 8:06 AM Georgi Gerganov ***@***.***> wrote:
FYI with the latest BLAS fixes, I believe that perplexity computations
should be much faster with big batch sizes ( > 255) if you link against
OpenBLAS
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I don't have a Mac so YMMV, but JuliaLang/julia#42312 might be relevant to seeing whether you can link against Apple's proprietary BLAS instead of OpenBLAS. |
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@jasontitus |
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Test plan for my 16 core AMD Threadripper 1950X for the new few weeks while I'm away:My 3 day pre-BLAS run with What do people think is the most interesting to explore and / or technically feasible with 128GB of RAM? e.g. or maybe? |
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Should I be independently grid searching batch size and context size? |
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Below is an exploration for I agree with @BadisG's $0.02 in #129 (comment), except there's some curious behaviour for
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I can confirm that different batch sizes are numerically stable 🤣
Also, at least on my 16 core AMD hardware and using OpenBLAS, 512 and 1024 batch sizes are near identical in compute and memory I/O performance, except for the number of context switches. I wonder if there would be any differences with
or
given |
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The greater context length, the more precise model can predict next token, that's why you see improvement |
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Agreed. Except if you look at the plot it is actually the 1024 context length and not the 1280 length that has less improvement per chunk. There will likely be some limiting factors such as model design and some edge cases. |
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@ikawrakow Any chance you could post/link to the perplexity data you used to generate the graphs/tables for k-quants added in PR #1684? Right now there's really no information for models >13B and having that available would be really helpful even if it's only for the new quantizations. (I can deal with it in any format, doesn't need to be cleaned up or anything.) I'd do it myself but unfortunately my hardware falls far short of completing something like that in a reasonable amount of time. |
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OK, here is a table
I haven't done |
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Just wondering if you have any comparisons with the older quants for 30b and 65b, since the main readme doesnt have those |
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@ikawrakow Thank you! Do you have the ones for 7B and 13B also? Sorry I wasn't clear, when I mentioned that only 7B and 13B were currently available I was talking about the section in the main README which only includes the non-k-quants quantizations. (I'd like to use this to generate other data/make comparisons so it's better if the source isn't an estimate.) |
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@KerfuffleV2 You need something different compared to what is already provided in the description of #1684? |
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@ikawrakow Please forgive me for wasting your time, I'm just an idiot. Thanks again! |
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Oh yeah, I forgot to post this but here is what I generated based on the information available. Note: I had to calculate the sizes for 33B and 65B based on the other models and I suspect it may not actually be correct so take the stats involving size with a huge chunk of salt. Here is the horrendous script that generated the below: https://gist.github.com/KerfuffleV2/d072237b4a9386e80cdc302f923843db (it started as a comprehension in the Python REPL so it never got a chance to be a real program) The figures came from the main README and ikawrakow's response here + k-quants PR. I didn't generate any of them myself, just manipulated them. Legend
edit: Manually generated, but for reference:
Based on full quality models. 7B
13B
33B
65B
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All, @ggerganov suggests that the standard test model be OpenLlama @SlyEcho mentions a "truncated wiki.test.raw perplexity test" Q1: If I was only doing 1 test... should it test on OpenLlama 3B, 7B or 13B? Q2: HOW do I do a "truncated perplexity test"? Q3: is i it likely that the above perplexity test will be a relevant comparison say in 3, 6, 9 months time? |
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thanks @Green-Sky How hard would it to be to add a |
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It is nothing special, you just take the first 406 lines like with a command: head -n406 wiki.test.raw > wiki.test.raw.406 |
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aha! Now that you explain it... it makes so much sense 😳 BTW: why 406... and not 405 or 408? |
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That's just where one of the text blocks ends, and also:
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@ianscrivener a bit more background info here: Quality Scores for a Herd of Llamas My (limited) understanding is that the choice of Note also that since different models are trained on different data sets, perplexity isn't an ideal metric for comparing between different models. Furthermore there are issues with the Open LLama tokenizer. The tokenizers are also not identical. |
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Open Llama 3B perplexity abbreviated test
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@ianscrivener I checked out your Azure CI brainstorming discussion and noted that you're looking at perplexity performance and not quality? The way perplexity uses llama.cpp looks to be distinctly different from interactive use, as can be seen from comparing your perplexity run above to the output of this run (no GPU): |
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@gjmulder, my understanding (perhaps wrong) is that we are aiming to get for a given a combination of each time there is a llama.cpp release we'd run a CI/CD process to get the test results (1 & 2) So - I was under the impression that the perplexity score is the quality you are referring to?! |
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@ggerganov am I on the right track for what your CI/CD goals are? |
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EDIT: Yes. It is a measure of the quality of generative ability of the model, and is a direct function of the dataset the model is trained on, the tokenizer used, whether or not the model over-fitted or under-fitted the training dataset, and the choice of text used in the perplexity evaluation. Therefore, if any one of these training design and evaluation choices is different, perplexity should be not used to compare different models. As long as we stick to only FB Llamas or only Open Llamas and the same perplexity evaluation text, perplexity is a valid metric. I replied in #1985 specifically w.r.t. performance and not perplexity (quality). |
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In response to @ggerganov's call for perplexity and latency testing for llama.cpp I've coded llama.cpp perplexity scorecard... a helper project to run and gather |
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Why not consider moving to a better and more used scoring method like HellaSwag? Added support for measurement of a HellaSwag-like score in PR #2312 and started a discussion in #2321. |
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thanks @klosax, Currently, perplexity (and now HellaSwag-like) are being run manually... with results collated/shared manually and charts/tables made manually. There is no central record (database) of results... just posts in Github discussions. So I'm working towards Rather than just one person, "someone with great computing power", running the benchmarks... the idea is that the broader community can run benchmarking. |
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Great! Remember that my test is not the same HellaSwag test that the Open LLM Leaderboard are using, so maybe we could call it the HellaSwagish test instead. The scores are linearly correlated but are not the same numbers as on the Leaderboard. Also, I suggest only using the 600 line dataset since the scores have stabilized at that point. |
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"HellaSwagish" it is!. |
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Is there any place with updated perplexity scores for LLAMA2 and current codebase with GGUF? |
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@BarfingLemurs |
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updated, ty |
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Am I reading it right that all of the Q3 models are slower than q4 models? |
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Not super surprising. Q3 is an odd size, and may also be more complicated internally. Odd sizes like that are less likely to be nicely aligned, fit in chunks for parallel operations (which usually use factors of 2), etc. |
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for me, q3_k_m 70b models on a 6800xt, generation speed starts around 600ms a token and moves up to around 800ms at higher context sizes, but for the same model in Q4_k_m or q4_k_s, it's between 900 and 1150ms a token. Maybe it has to do with me only partially offloading |
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Agree. I'd also like to see perplexity and Hellaswag scores, updated with each code release at least for a handful of llama2 gguf models. I'm really interested to see and understand the improvements over time - both in the code and the models. Ie quality and performance benchmarks over time. I've done preliminary code for this (both in python and node.js) after @ggerganov put out the call and said that sufficient Azure cloud resources would be soon available. I put an MLOps benchmarking roadmap to @ggerganov in an email but did not get a reply. There does not seem to be very much interest in this from the C++ developers. I'm off grid, accessing via 4G, and only have a Macbook Pro. So without access to the cloud GPU that Azure has given to the project I cannot do proceed. Personally, I'd like to see llama.cpp grow beyond just the (excellent) core C++ library, ie adding;
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Here are my cents:
For others to decide.
We announce a couple of supported models without documentation (or a link?) on how to convert and run. This looks (and probably is) bad.
Personally I'm quite interested.
I'd assume |
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downstream? |
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Consumers of |
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Mistral 7b compared to other llamas: Q4_K_M: (If perplexity isn't a fair benchmarking tool, we can use hellaswag score for kquants) |
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perplexity is only ever fair, when the exact same data was used to train the models. |
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Stuff like whether the model is instruct tuned can also make a difference. If the model expects a specific prompt format, the chunks from perplexity won't conform to that. Basically, as far as I understand it, perplexity doesn't really work well comparing different models with each other. It's more meaningful comparing stuff like the effects of different quantizations on the same model (and even then, pretty much only looking at the relative changes rather than the absolute value). |
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I'd like truthful QA. |
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Hi. |
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https://huggingface.co/datasets/ggml-org/ci/blob/main/wikitext-2-raw-v1.zip For the above, we only use |
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and others
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We are currently collecting Perplexity scores for all models + quantization + program flags. Use this discussion to Coordinate.
Mostly Default
./perplexitysettings with all ofwiki.test.rawResults in italics are now being added / updated with BLAS enabled and using quantization as per PR #896. These results are collected from various sources and builds, so will contain inconsistencies and errors.
Note: Since the tokenizer used by FB Llama and Open Llama are different the following is not a valid inter-model comparison ~ @gjmulder:
Context sizes:
(512 | 1024 | 2048) ⨯ (7B | 13B | 30B | 65B) ⨯ (llama | alpaca[-lora] | vicuna-GPTQ)models, first 406 lines ofwiki.test.raw:Google GSheet with comments enabled.
I appreciate that alpaca models aren't generative in intent, and so perplexity is not a good measure. However, I was curious to see the trade-off in perplexity for the chat-like models - @gjmulder
History
Feel free to make a new thread in this discussion when you take a measurement, or want to "donate" some compute time.
(@gjmulder @glinscott, et al feel free to make edits to this post)
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