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Feature: null clock style #779
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Hi @5pinDMX , thank you for taking the time to reach out with a proposal for improvement. I believe allowing the user to provide a custom text for placeholder times would be good. However, I am unconvinced that The placeholder time shows up As long as this is in the user's control, I guess they can decide whether or not to agree with me. Meanwhile,
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Currently we are using ontime for a presentation timer. We want the timer to stop at 00:00:00 (using the minimal view with custom css font). Currently using end action none will count into negative time, and stop will show the place holder. To get around this, we have added an event after the countdown with duration of 00:00:00 and set end action to Load Next for the countdown event. I would like an option that stops the clock at 00:00:00. Maybe this is another option under End Action? |
I understand, this is a good use case, thank you for this. As a workaround for now, would the |
Without diving into the css file, the styling for the clock appears different than an end message and is not displaying how we'd like it to. Thank you for your quick response and thank you for considering my request. |
I see. We are currently working with v3, so this would have to wait until we are at least in beta. Meanwhile, you could try and find a selector for the end time and apply styles to match Thank you again |
I second the idea of a clock that stops and freezes at zero. For presenters on stage it is the usual indication that the time is up. The clock that counts up has been causing confusion for some inexperienced presenters on my last events and I had to pause the timer manually at zero and then let it blink (when i missed it with one second left it became a joke for the presenter "haha, I can go on forever now", when I missed the moment or forgot to switch from roll to manual, it switched to the next slot, which caused confusion). I used the roll feature to "catch up" and switch back to manual control after that. Imagine several presentations in a row. As for the Message feature: it is a good idea to use that, but in many cases we just have a minimal timer pipped into the presenters view of PowerPoint to indicate time. They might just ignore or overlook that if the clock is replaced with text. |
Hi @5pinDMX and @RasterboxOff Thank you both for your input. I see the value in this feature and would like proceed with the development. However I have some doubts on how it should be implemented. I have tried to take the thoughts in steps so that we can discuss these efficiently Should Ontime pause on 0From a application for time management perspective, I believe it would be incorrect to actually pause the timer and stop progression. From my point of view, the real value here is in presentation, ie: we dont want the consumers of the timer (potentially a speaker) to experience a negative timer. How to coordinate timers that do not pauseOntime has a few existing strategies to coordinate how data is treated. Timer types The downside I see is that we risk cluttering the dataset with flags that are pure presentational and have no affect to the behaviour of the app. View parameters This could add to complexity of setting up Ontime and unfortunate issues which would not be caught until it is too late(user got to the wrong URL). I am personally inclined to prefer this second version Other stuffThere was some other suggestions here that I would also like to address, although I feel they may be related to other tasks
Do I understand correctly that you would like the time that was overtime by presenter 1 to be retracted to presenter to? Presenter 1 speaks for 20 min Is this correct?
I understand you are likely mentioning message as a way to solve the issue of negative timers. But I thought that maybe you have some feedback on how messages should be improved? Lets make messages great! |
Hey Carlos, Thanks for getting back so quickly. It becomes more complicated quickly and definitely interacts with other features in a way, where I think a whole picture is needed to find the right place to put this feature. I think that this all plays into the feature to have one (or more) additional timers and the behaviour of - let‘s call this one ‚speaker timer‘ - could be controlled without interfering with the overall schedule. On the one hand we have the schedule and its cues. In a tightly knit show this will become the source for the timers we use on stage and backstage. What I think could work:A dedicated speaker timer that has the following options:
Setting the time on the dedicated Speaker timerThe following options would immediately set and start the countdown accordingly:
Display options of dedicated speaker timer
Speaker timer controls| +1 | +5 | +10
All this would have to be fully integrated with companion/OSC. But why?I think at the moment the adaptation of Ontime often happens in a way where people try to use it instead of a normal speaker timer like the Irisdown Countdown timer for example. Having a countdown is the feature we always need and it would be the ideal place to start making Ontime more known and getting more technicians familiar with it. Once this works well, it will be easier to make the real and more powerful features seen, because Ontime would already have a purpose on the event, albeit the small one of only sending minutes to the stage. Sorry for so much text, it escalated. |
Hi @RasterboxOff, thank you for this. In truth, this is something that we will likely plan carefully and is unlikely to be done in the near future. Having said that, I wonder if the idea of independent timer from the rundown is mutually exclusive to a configuration of the timer view which would stop timers going negative? What do you think? |
Hey @cpvalente Carlos, That makes a lot of sense. I was looking for the "freeze at zero" behavior in the timer types, but I understand if that feels cluttering. So a cosmetic option in the view seems fine from my side. It is unlikely that the user will receive the wrong url. These sources will normally be set up once and stay like that until the end of the event. I wholeheartedly agree that the schedule should keep running in the background, the question is how to switch back to displaying the timer again. What I've been doing was to pause the timer at zero, keep it like that until the next speaker was up, switch to roll mode, hit play to gain control over the timer again and subtract a few minutes if needed. Ideally this could be streamlined to a less click intensive process? This process of "catching up" would need a workflow and the view would have to understand that it switches back to displaying a countdown. It should be doable from the editor or timer control interface, I think. Reloading the view wouldn't be ideal in my opinion, since the view is most likely on some second screen of a laptop with not much of a preview except for a tiny multiview window somewhere. Really appreciate the search for a solution here. What do you think is most feasible as an interim solution? |
Hi @RasterboxOff, I will need to think about a solution for the issues described. @5pinDMX, am I right to interpret from your request that the option to not show negative timers in the stage timer are for all timers, not on a timer by timer case? @RasterboxOff Ontime module v4.0.1 is compatible with v3 and should be included in the latest companion release. Could you confirm this? |
Hey Carlos @cpvalente Sorry for the wait, it's been busy days. I can confirm that Ontime is included in the current stable Companion version, I got to work with the latest combination of both releases yesterday. I didn't try all the features, but what I used worked instantly and well. I'm confident a workable solution for a timer that stops at zero will emerge. I'm not 100% sure anymore though, if creating a workaround in the meantime is the most straightforward way, as it might become a feature that pops up and disappears again a few months later. Some who don't follow the reasoning or release notes on GitHub might get confused by it. But that's just a thought, I would certainly appreciate a workaround, too. |
An option to customize how a null clock should be displayed. As of version 2.28.17, when a clock ends, it is displayed as "-- : -- : --". An option for this to be displaying "00:00:00" or time of day would be benneficial.
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