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Issue with 夜 component in TW/HK #460

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NightFurySL2001 opened this issue Sep 2, 2023 · 1 comment
Open

Issue with 夜 component in TW/HK #460

NightFurySL2001 opened this issue Sep 2, 2023 · 1 comment

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@NightFurySL2001
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In Taiwan MOE manual, 夕 component is required to have the dot stroke (點) connected to the top and bottom stroke.
image
This also applies to 夜, where the manual view the bottom right as a throw stroke (捺) connected to 夕.
image

However, in Sans v1, this difference is ignored as stylistic difference and TW uses the same form as JP and CN, where the dot is not connected to both the top and bottom of the stroke. Shown below is v1.004.

Expand to see 夜 component in v1 Sans

v1 Sans 夜 component

This changed in v2 when HK is introduced and a new glyph for 夜 is made for HK, but this is only used for HK and not TW. Other TW glyphs are made or modified to connect the dot, and then used for both TW and HK. Shown below is v2.004.

Expand to see 夜 component in v2 Sans

v2 Sans 夜 component

There is no written record why such a change is made between v1 and v2 Sans.


The changes in Serif v2 however is not that drastic: only 夜 gets a new HK glyph which only maps to HK, and no TW glyph is modified.

Expand to see 夜 component in v2 Serif

v2 Serif 夜 component

Also noted that in HK CLIAC/HKSCS reference glyph PDF, it is explicitly mentioned that such connection issues is a stylistic difference and bears no meaningful differences.

image


There are 2 valid options for Source Han:

  1. Continue with v2 Sans and remap HK 夜 to TW. This is the least effort for Sans but require 2 new glyphs and 3 modified glyph to be made for Serif. This will let TW to match the requirement.
  2. Revert back to v1 Sans/v2 Serif and remove the difference. 3 glyphs will revert back to v1 Sans (焲, 腋, 𤥿), while freeing up 3 glyphs. TW will not match the requirement and this will be viewed as a stylistic difference similar to 立.
    image

There is also the third option to only let TW has its own glyph and HK remap to CN, but it is just a waste of glyphs by that point and require 2 more glyphs for 焲 and 腋.

My personal preference is option 2: revert Sans back to v1 Sans, which is better aesthetically while being in tolerance with the style guide of Source Han.

@Marcus98T
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In Taiwan MOE manual, 夕 component is required to have the dot stroke (點) connected to the top and bottom stroke. image This also applies to 夜, where the manual view the bottom right as a throw stroke (捺) connected to 夕. image

Also related is your own issue: #343. It depends on whether the next major version of Sans will follow the closed JP form (which will be compatible with TW MOE forms) or the open CN form for the 夕 component, the latter for which is more consistent with other Japanese fonts. And I still think the 夕 component is going to be just a stylistic difference, not a regional difference, so Adobe and the font designers shouldn't be so strict about it.

And even in JP/KR locales with traditional orthography, the 夜 component does not follow the closed form of the 夕 component, because I believe it's deemed different from the 夕 component itself.

So yes, I support option 2.

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